this hour the police, nypd have entered hamilton hall. a story building on columbia's campus, where approximately 60 individuals were going back to the police. let's take a listen. okay. we are obviously dealing with a lot of moving pieces here, but you see a robust police presence. police in riot gear using a ladder truck to enter hamilton hall where i think about 60 protesters were inside, barricaded themselves inside. we have reports dozens of protesters have been arrested or detained by police. we do not yet know what the charges are. nypd him at the request of columbia university, which requested assistance after 9:00 p.m. tonight. we are going to leave it there. it is time now for the last word with my friend, lawrence o'donnell. >> good evening, alex.

i have of course been watching all your coverage here, and what we have seen on the videos so far is actually the most organized and most common most professional police intervention we have ever seen on a college campus. there is not a huge collection of those, but there is enough beginning in 1968, to show how different this one is. the 1968 version, those 700 arrested students were gleefully beaten by the nypd. in those days, the police departments were going into campuses, were gleeful about the violence that they were visiting upon those antiwar protesters, and it was relentless, vicious, and cruel, and extended to the democratic convention in chicago, by investigated by police right. that's not what we are seeing tonight. our screen has been filled with what clearly do appear to be columbia student sets escorted

by a police officer, both of them, the police officer and student walking very calmly to whatever that arrest destination is, what vehicle they will put those kids on and take them where they are going. so, this so far, is nothing like what we have seen in the previous, dramatic, and violent interventions by police department's in the past on campuses. it could get worse. we could get an after action report that indicates rough things. but so far that has not been the slightest bit of violence tonight. >> have a great show. we are joined by former chief of police in dekalb county, georgia. he has also been in touch with nypd tonight. and, cedric, i have been watching what you have been watching on the screen, and i have been watching for and hoping for the professionalism

of the police force and their response. they didn't volunteer to be there, they didn't ask to be there, columbia asked them to be there. and what we have seen so far from what the camera can detect has been no police brutality, no overreaction by police, and cooperation in their arrests by the students who are being arrested. >> caller: let me say this, lawrence, one thing i think is important to take into account, nypd has been preparing. historically these type of events, they have a long city of dealing with these types of situations, and in preparation for the administration there and columbia giving nypd the green light to move in, in which nypd did tonight they were very well prepared, they had been preparing for this for

some time, utilizing their intelligence sources i am quite sure. they had been using all available technology to them, and they had a plan. we saw them go in, and so far it has been without incident. those officers i am quite sure would have conducted themselves accordingly effective arrest. but i think we are in a situation here tonight where we are hopefully seeing this come to an end, because it probably should have come to an end at this point. it appears nypd and its leadership have certainly done a great job in terms of working with the university and community at large hopefully to bring this to a peaceful end. >> the only really big difference between these protests this spring and what we saw in 1968 and during the vietnam war is that these protests are much smaller and much more scattered. we have 6000 colleges in the

united states of america, approximately 48 of them have seen some demonstrations, most of them relatively small demonstrations. so the real story of american college life this spring has been more than 99% of students have been going to classes uninterrupted and more than 99% of colleges. that is a perspective you don't get when the camera aims at what is happening on any particular university. we all understand, and this campus gets a lot of media attention, since it is located in the media capital of the world. and nypd has not pressure tonight knowing that the world is watching what they are doing. >> absolutely. but i think in addition to that also, lawrence. if we go back to 1968 in this much earlier years we certainly did not have the communication

mediums we have today. the internet, etc. and facebook and so forth and so on. it is a different time. what is happening on one particular campus we all around the country and around the world can see what's going on. i think what occurred tonight, they had a show of a community that prepared itself. those in around that community, and we have to applaud them as well too. everyone i think wanted to see this come to an end. i wouldn't be surprised if protesters wanted to see it come to an end. on behalf of the city, police, and community at large, i think it is a demonstration of how far we have come since 1960. hopefully there is opportunity now for the university to sit down with all parties involved

and find resolution to these complex issues that will continue to face us every day. >> cedric alex, think mike you for joining us at this hour. thank you. if there is anything more to bring you during this hour we will bring it to you. it is always shocking to see a police presence like this on an american campus going in there to deal with protests. normally in this country now and when you see a police presence like this on a campus, it is because a mass murderer is let loose on the campus. that is not what happened there tonight. that is not what is happening there tonight. it has been so far peaceful protest which included occupying a building, and the occupying of the building was the action that provoked the university to decide they had to call local police to try and

remove the protesters from the building. everything we have seen so far indicates protesters have been arrested when leaving the building and leaving that building calmly. we will continue to follow exactly what's happening at columbia tonight as necessary. we are turning up to the news of the day. that occurred for any of this happened tonight, at columbia. that begins with something very important that donald trump heard today from the judge in his committal trial. "jail may be a necessary punishment." that is what judge juan merchan said today in writing. trial days frequently. the judge called some housekeeping matters, one of them was trying to work something out with the sound system to make it work better. another was a good news bad

news item for donald trump. the judge said because the trial is proceeding ahead of schedule canceled so mr. trump can certainly attend his son's graduation. bad news for donald trump, he might now actually have to go to his son's high school graduation, and then is the third housekeeping item on the judge's mind, he used less than a minute of court time to enhance his finding that donald trump is indeed guilty of contempt of court. the judge said "the court finds that the people have met their burden of proof and demonstrated contempt. mr. trump is find $1000 on each. i am handing down a written decision copies for both sides. the details of the decision are in the written decision. and that was that. the judge then brought in the jury. in the seven pages describing trump's violations of the judge's order forbidding him to

make comments the judge decided trump violated his order nine times and find trump the maximum fine of $1000 for each violations. the judge noted the inadequacy of the finds in donald trump's case. the judge wrote the judiciary law does not vest the court with authority to craft an appropriate punishment when a $1000 fine will not achieve the intended purpose. by $1000 may suffice in most instances to protect the dignity of the system to respect for its mandates and punish the offender for disobeying a court order and unfortunately will not achieve the desired result in those instances where the contemnor can easily afford such a fine . in those circumstances it would be preferable if the court could impose a fine more commensurate with the wealth of the contemnor nor in some cases

that might be a $2500 fine. in other cases it might be $150,000. because this court is not clipped with such discretion it must therefore consider whether in some instances jail may be a necessary punishment. therefore the defendant is hereby warned the court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful order, and if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances it will impose an incarcerated tory punishment. when the trial resumes on thursday the first order of business is a hearing on four more alleged violations of the judge's gag order against donald trump. the worst of the violations is donald trump saying in an interview last monday "that jury was picked so fast-95% democrats. the area's mostly all democrat. you think of it as a purely

democratic area. it's a very unfair situation that i can tell you." trump is under order to not say a word about the jury, not a word. so it doesn't actually matter that what he said about the jury is a lie. donald trump has no idea how many democrats are on that jury or how many republicans might be on the jury. but we do know donald trump will be fined $1000 for saying that. and what we don't know yet is how many more of these violations will it take for the judge to consider jail a necessary punishment. 30 days is the maximum sentence a judge can issue for any one of these violations. if donald trump was sentenced to any time in jail he would be like many of the criminal defendants who report for their trials every day in that same courthouse while living in jail on rikers island across the water from laguardia airport. and so donald trump has never been closer to spending a night

in jail than he is right now. the most important testimony of the day was given by the man who said i have a blockbuster trump story. keith davidson was stormy daniels' first lawyer. before that he was karen mcdougal's first lawyer. and it was in his role as mcdougal's first lawyer he text the publisher of the national enquirer i have a blockbuster trump story. steinglass asked witness keith davidson to read that text that he sent to dylan howard. i have a blockbuster trump story . question, what did you mean by that? answer, sort of an entree or teaser to dylan to let him know i had perhaps an opportunity for him. question, and what was that generally speaking without revealing client confidences, what was the opportunity about which you were contacting him?

answer, regarding the interaction between karen mcdougal and donald trump. question, what did stir howard say if anything, in response? answer, talk first thing i will get you more than anyone for it. you know why. question answer that you would call me in the morning. that i don't know if i had a clear understanding at that time, but i knew that dylan's boss, david pecker , and mr. trump are longtime friends and had a former business relationship, that mr. david pecker published trump magazine, and that at the time they had endorsed mr. trump's candidacy. that is why national enquirer, he believed,. dylan's reply was

talk first thing, i will get you more than anyone for it, you know why. and the why in keith davidson's answer was mr. trump's candidacy. the prosecutor asked davidson to read more texts. from dylan, did he cheat on milani? question who did you understand he to be referring to? donald trump. okay, next text. from who? from dylan. do you know if the affair was during his marriage to melania? answer yes. and how did you respond to this text? answer, i really cannot say yet . sorry. question, is that because he didn't know, or because you weren't prepared to discuss the details at that point? answer, it was because it was the latter, because i was not prepared to discuss the details at that point. keith davidson then entered

negotiations with the national enquirer to sell karen mcdougal's story to the national enquirer. keith davidson arranged a meeting in california in keith davidson's office. question, can you tell us the substance of what ms. mcdougal said about the nature of her interactions with mr. trump during this meeting? answer i can summarize it. that's fine. ms. mcdougal alleges that she had had a romantic affair with donald trump for some years prior. question, when you say romantic, does that include sexual? answer that's what she expressed. that was the blockbuster story. that was for sale to the national enquirer. can google was a playboy magazine model who in 1998 was playmate of the year. karen mcdougal has said in interviews she was in love with donald trump and did not want her story about donald trump to be made public, keith davidson was able to use that story as

leverage to use the national enquirer to pay his client, karen mcdougal, $150,000, to work for the national enquirer or its parent company by occasionally maybe writing articles for them the prosecution alleges this was a classic example of the so-called catch and kill scheme the jury has already heard about in david testimony which revealed a secret plan for the national enquirer to kill all negative stories about candidate donald trump, purchase them if necessary. and to highlight and even invent negative stories about donald trump office campaign opponents. karen mcdougal was not the last blockbuster trump story, but that keith davidson worked on for the next story was the stormy daniels story to prosecutor asked keith davidson what the release of the access hollywood visio of donald trump bragging about sexual assault meant for the stormy daniels story in the value of it. question.what impact if any did

the release of the access hollywood tape have an interest in stormy daniels' story as you are aware? >> so far as i'm aware? it had tremendous influence. question. can you explain that a little bit to the jury please? answer, before access hollywood tape there was very little if any interest from what i understand it was not until access hollywood that interest sort of reached a crescendo. keith davidson was then asked about his texts after the access hollywood story broke. question, who sent the first text in this chain? it's from me. question, what did you say? answer. trump is f'd. you wrote out the whole word? answer yes. had to dylan howard respond? he responded with a wave the white flag, it's over pete both

people exclamation point. how did you interpret that? answer, i think he was seconding my opinion. question based on the axis i would tape to mark answer yes. national enquirer backed out of the deal and keith davidson had to negotiate directly with michael cohen for the hush money payments that were paid directly to stormy daniels. when they were struggling to finalize the deal and michael cohen was not ready to make the payments davidson remembered cohen saying well godamit i am doing everything i can. when he said his guy was in a certain number of states who did you understand his guy to be making references to? his answer, donald trump. then another discussion tonight is evan klasfeld, fellow at

justice security, and andrew weissman, nbc, msnbc: a list and author of trump indictments . adam? first of all when i saw the judge ruled on the contempt i was eager to see the transfer. i wanted to see what he said about it before he issued his written opinion. and it's half a page. it is stunning how quickly he did that. >> it was entirely off-hand. he couldn't have pronounced it more cavalier. he was doing housekeeping as he said. he got around to the calendar, the sound system, then he mentioned donald trump, you are found in contempt of court nine times over. he goes to this way he has conducted himself throughout the arguments over this. he is taking his time.

he is picking it apart. you may have noticed there were nine out of the 10 different allegedly violations before him. he is carefully and quietly going through it, but it's leaving its mark. one thing in the written order the judge imposed, he forced trump to take down the offending post, and he gave him the deadline of 2:15, which is a time when the court always comes back from the lunch recess setting up this possible standoff. trump complied. and it showed that even though the judge is speaking softly, and he's going very carefully and deliberately the messages coming through. >> thursday when they resume, it's more of these hearings of these posts of his? >> it is worth noting the judge issued a very detailed opinion. it's not like he just in half a

page of viewer notes. like i find you in contempt. there is a detailed decision that goes through each of the defense arguments and why the judge either agrees with one, which is why there was not a finding of contempt on one of the 10, and why he disagreed on the others. it was very very thoughtful. the other thing to make sure everyone understands, this is a finding of terminal contempt. not civil contempt. this is criminal contempt. and the $1000-- >> what is the difference between civil and criminal contempt? >> first of all what is a civil judgment, and it is there to coerce. it is, the only penalty is not really called a penalty. it is to get somebody to do something. this is a punishment whether it was $1000, which was the maximum fine, or jail, that is to punish the person for their behavior. just the way in a criminal felony the sentence is to

punish. this is criminal contempt, and it is finding beyond a reasonable doubt. and that is the standard that the judge applied that the state had to meet, and that is that the defendant, donald trump, knew of the order and willfully violated it. and that was found by the judge nine times the only reasonable doubt. so he is controlling, he is in criminal contempt. we will find out whether there is more and if the judge will do something different, or if he's going to wait and see if there is a violation after the judge's order. expect this finding by the judge today, is it appealable? >> it is. good luck. i mean i don't think there is a leg to stand on, but he could appeal it if he wants to. >> we will squeeze in a quick rake. we will be back right after this. this. that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining.

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we are back with evan klasfeld , who was in the courtroom, and andrew weissman. what were the main points accomplished. all we had was direct examination by the prosecutor, of both karen mcdougal and stormy daniels' lawyer. what did the prosecution accomplish? >> well you highlighted some of the explosive texts that came out today.

and if these texts keith davidson sent to howard. they were friends for many years, and they sent a lot of messages. the theme was that both sides understood this was for trump. the payoff to karen mcdougal was for trump. the payment to stormy daniels was for trump. and there was this moment, and you will see probably tomorrow, excuse me, thursday, if this goes to cross-examination, trump's attorney i expect will highlight one line that came out during keith davidson's testimony, when he recalled a conversation he had with michael cohen, saying i will do it myself. that he wouldn't seek authority to consummate the deal, it would consummated with a signature, he would waive it with authority. after

that is the part where the real context comes in. the prosecutor asks, did you ever believe that michael cohen was going to be the ultimate source of the funds? never. never in a prior funding, no. even after he said i'll just do it myself, where did you understand that money would be coming from? from donald trump, or some corporate affiliation thereof? so, that was a key moment and powerful moment, and it goes to what they had been arguing in court, prosecutors, that this was not just michael cohen going rogue. this was the plan that everyone understood, and that is what came in at a dramatic moment of testimony. >> and andrew, this is going to be the defense cross- examination is going to zero in on that in a big way. >> yeah, the defense, with a >> to mr. davidson, that he had so far, he has talked about no direct conversations with donald trump. everything is coming through

somebody else, including michael cohen. and the real issue is national enquirer basically said because they talked to legal counsel, we can't continue paying. we can't do what we did with the doorman or karen mcdougal. you need another bank. that was the problem for donald trump and michael cohen, because they had to come up with the money. plan a was see if we can push this until after the election, but that was not working, because keith davidson was like no, we need the money now. they knew their story was worthless after the election. michael tries to put them off and put them off and ultimately , we know he came up with the money himself. he had to take out a home equity line, and jurors knew that, because they heard from the prior witness. so the real issue at the end of the day is what is the defense

going to argue? that michael cohen was so loyal to donald trump he took out a loan but did it without telling him? and he wouldn't want to tell him to mark and that he would like to him and then lie to get reimbursed? and get reimbursed for much more on a theory he was going to pay income tax on it? it does not make any sense as to why you wouldn't tell your boss when he is the ultimate beneficiary. your boss would actually be proud of what you had done. this isn't like you had stolen money and want to keep it from him. i think the logic of the defense is really going to be challenged by the circumstances laid out. >> yeah, we don't know what the defense is going to be, but it has been floated that donald

trump wanted these stories to go away to protect his wife and to predict his position with his wife. testimony today had nothing to do with his wife. it had entirely to do with presidential campaign, and that's the reason that the national enquirer will pay for this because of the campaign. those are the words that were used and the timing before access hollywood, they can't sell the stormy daniels story. donald trump is not on the market to protect melania the day before the access hollywood story about the day after the access hollywood story donald trump suddenly needs to buy the story. >> all of this when he is coming in with witnesses who have no skin in the game. it is coming through david pecker. it's coming through keith davidson, who was one of the lawyers who was involved in the deal, and that is what gives it this authority. they are laying all this foundation from these witnesses. and to your point about the access hollywood tape, they

showed in the text messages what a stick of dynamite that was to the campaign, that this landed with this explosion, and you read the quote, wave the white flag it's over. that's when to your point about how long this story was being shopped around, it was as early as 2011, and they were talking about how this story that stormy daniels' manager was trying to sell it by 2016, all of a sudden that is the event, the access hollywood tape that caused this commotion. and that is what prosecutors promised jurors in opening statements. >> the prosecutor has tomorrow off, then resumes direct examination of the witness on thursday which is great for any trial lawyer to get that kind of a break with a witness, because anything regret about

today, i should have emphasized this or that, you go back in thursday morning and can really deliver what you need. >> i think where we are towards the end of the story, which is we haven't gotten to the actual payment, and then we know from the opening that there is this wonderful email that the jury will have in front of it, where keith davidson after donald trump wins basically is saying look, this is what we have done , to your point it makes it clear all of this is about the campaign. i think to the extent there is a melania defense, that's the thing prosecution hopes gets raised, because it is a sickening, insulting defense to the jury to use your family when it's clear that's not what was going on. >> where is the defendant's

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we are looking at the scene there at columbia university

where the police action seems to be completed. nypd is leaving the campus now. they used two buses to transport the people they arrested for trespassing and disorderly conduct, occupying a building. two buses would indicate it is far less than 100 arrests, around 50 or less. no indication of violence breaking out with police officers or the people being arrested, or the protesters around them. it seemed to be a peaceful arrest procedure, the kind we have seen at other protests where the point of the protest in sometimes was to actually be arrested. the way jane fonda's protest in the capital last year. this has been much more

dramatic and difficult to get through than that, but it now seems to be complete. cedric alexander, former chief of police in dekalb county, georgia, and msnbc law enforcement analyst, cedric, you said you expected it to go this way based on your experience with nypd and these matters. it appears to have concluded it . >> yeah, and i think we are thankful for that. there will be reports on how things went, but from all appearance, what i am able to see from where i am i am hearing it was all very uneventful, lawrence. and i think we can move forward now, hopefully the university can move forward to resolve some of these complex issues

they still have to deal with. but it just appears that everything went well tonight. i am certainly grateful for it. i am sure the city of new york is grateful for it as well. i have to tip my hat to the men and women of nypd, and mayor eric adams, working with administration to find what appears to be resolve with no incident. >> always sad to see police intervention on campus is like here at columbia. we can be glad if it has been executed peacefully as it appears it has been paid cedric alexander, thank you. really appreciated. back to donald trump's problems with lawyers. shakespeare's line, let's kill

all the lawyers, that's of course from shakespeare's henry vi, and it surely expresses trump off his feelings about the lawyers who are taking so much money from donald trump's contributors. and in most cases eventually disappointing donald trump. new york times reports trump has privately expressed criticisms of his leading criminal defense lawyer, todd blanche. todd blanche would at some point be fired and attacked by trump for the rest of his life. the times reports "he has griped that mr. blanche has not been following his instructions closely, and has been insufficiently aggressive. mr. trump once him to attack witnesses, attack with the former president sees as a hostile jury pool, and attacked the judge, juan merchan. " you could have told todd blanche it was going to go this way. >> yes, there obviously is precedent for that as people have joked maga stands for making attorneys get attorneys. it's worth noting there are a

number of lawyers in trump world who have faced consequences, and i have to say as a lawyer i am proud of the fact the profession takes that seriously. and lawyers where there are allegations, all of the due process rights in terms of making findings, but you are seeing actions from notably rudy giuliani or john eastman where there have been findings by tribunals is to improprieties. and the fallacy here is voyeurs are retained, and they are officers of the court. they do not do whatever a client wants. you might think it may be what you want. but donald is foolish to think that's the case. but that's not even what you want. donald trump should have learned from his case against e. jean carroll where he said

basically i could do this better. he didn't like the first results, which was $5 million. he said i can do that. and we know the results, which was another $85 million. so you may not like the results, but you are the person who committed the alleged crimes. the hand the lawyer is playing is one you dealt. so this is one where attributes donald trump does not have is self reflection and thinking he might have any responsibility for the situation he's in. expect andrew weissman, thank you for joining us. coming up rachel will introduce you by candidate tammy baldwin. that's next.

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life expectancy. almost no one in a nursing home is at a point to vote. >> i am no political expert, but even someone who has never heard of the united states senate before could probably suss out that is not a great political strategy. old people should not vote. old people in nursing homes, they should not be allowed. most nursing home residents not at a point to vote. after that made headlines across wisconsin and across the country, hovde tried to make this go away as a new story, but he did it again as if this was an episode of veep. quote, in recent days hovde has tried to clarify his comments. this week he reiterated his belief that, quote, a large percentage of nursing home residents, quote, are not in the mental capacity to vote. that is playing it out. when i said old people in

nursing homes should not be allowed to vote, everyone made that sound so bad. let me clarify. what i meant was that a large percentage of old people in nursing homes should not be allowed to vote because they don't have the mental capacity for it. there, is that better? >> joining us now, eric hovde's democratic opponent in this campaign, senator tammy baldwin. senator, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> rachel summed that one up rather neatly, i thought. >> yes, the last time i was on your show i got to tell you the story of my own grandmother who broke her hip at age 90, went into a nursing home and got the opportunity to cast a vote to send her granddaughter to the united states congress. it was such an insult to hear his disparaging words about seniors and disparaging words about so many others. you know, his insistence that

we should repeal the affordable care act in its entirety. you know, when i was nine years old i had a serious childhood illness. i was labeled with those terrifying words, pre-existing condition, like half of all americans. but because of the affordable care act when we told insurance companies you can no longer discriminate because somebody has been sick in the past, we have millions now who are able to obtain health insurance. eric hovde not only wants to repeal the affordable care act in its entirety, he wants to/medicare, raise the retirement age, all of which should concern not only seniors, but all wisconsinites. i remind viewers that when donald trump was last president, we came within one vote of losing the affordable care act. if eric hovde were to defeat me and donald trump were reelected, we probably would not have the affordable care

act anymore and all of the protections that it guarantees. so if your viewers want to help me fight back, please help me do that. >> eric hovde said he is opposed to every single provision in the affordable care act. he was specifically asked what about the provision that allows people to keep kids on their policies until they are 26. he said, no, i hate everything about it. >> that was the provision i authored in the affordable care act when i was in the house of representatives on a panel that was writing the act and i have been so hard warmed to see how many young people. it used to be the demographic in our country with the least insurance. the exit for my school and right into a job. that job probably doesn't offer health insurance, so when you can stay on your parents health insurance until you turn 26, it gives you a running start and

provides healthcare to millions who would not otherwise have it. we have to fight to keep the affordable care act. we have to build upon it, frankly, as democrats have been. but we can't let somebody who wants to slash away people's affordable healthcare anywhere near the floor of the united states senate. >> senator tammy baldwin, when i saw rachel presenting your opponent last night on her program, i felt it got to hear from you tonight. thank you very much for joining us. >> i appreciate it. >> thank you. we will be right back. back. i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein! those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. -ugh. -here, i'll take that. woo hoo! ensure max protein, 30 grams protein, 1 gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals. and a new fiber blend with a prebiotic. (♪♪)

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senator tammy baldwin gets tonight last word. "the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle" starts now. we are covering breaking news this evening at columbia university here in manhattan where protests against the israel/hamas war in gaza