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micah6vs8 |
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April 27, 2010 07:49:43pm |
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GratefulDead
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Attn. WT Cream Request |
O.K. You have peaked my interest. My dad was a huge Cream fan (and followed EC and GB careers closely till he passed away) and you know kids and their parents music. How many times do I have to listen to this again, dad? From the same studio album? So in your time if you would throw me a bone and direct me to something that will hopefully blow my mind. Sound quality if possible, but i went through the eighties listening to lots of imperfect sound so not a deal breaker. I don't mind being tossed into the deep end either
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Poster:
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micah6vs8 |
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April 29, 2010 09:29:03am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Thank-you everyone for your suggestions. I'm going to try 10-15-67, then '68 . Maybe that Albert Hall '68 as well.
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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April 29, 2010 12:28:25pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Defn try that--can usu even rent it (DVD from 68). Nice complete footage of a number of tunes, and interviews...
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SkyDawg |
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April 29, 2010 01:56:43am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
I absolutely recommend the live reunion Cream DVD "Live At Albert Hall" recorded in London in May 2005! For sound quality and selection this one is a "must have". It's loud, it's Cream, and it's in DTS surround sound! The sound quality and performances are fantastic!
I have all of Cream's albums and most of the other stuff that circulates and the RAH reunion show is still my favorite one to play. It was a great run of shows to listen to, and the sound quality and playing quality is superb!
As for albums, well I suggest "Fresh Cream", "Disraeli Gears" and "Wheels Of Fire", the three studio albums, or even a "Best of Cream" type complilation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyftaay-pFAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy7eILGtth8Since YouTube does not have much, the second video is an audience recording of one of my favorite Cream songs, NSU, played at MSG that year!
This post was modified by SkyDawg on 2010-04-29 08:56:43
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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April 29, 2010 08:08:55am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Hey SD--great to see you joining in with the CREAM-fest! I think you may have missed the past month or so when LiA and I and a few others have been going back and forth on it (them, the DEAD, etc.). I have to admit, having spoken "in favor" of the 05 show (I used it as an example of 68 to 05, CREAM held up better than 68-95 DEAD; LiA suggested "no"...ie, they were poor in 05, like the DEAD in 95).
So, I listened to it again (05 CREAM), and have to admit, I still think they held up better, but it doesn't do nearly as much for me (overall tempo issue--perhaps for GB?), but glad to hear you liked it...sound quality certainly is good! I still love to pull out the 68 AlbHall show for nice visuals...wish the GB section was all "real time" and not so much "artsy" 60s esque bits and pieces spliced together (ie, when he is shown in different shirts in the same solo...?!).
They are my current obsession for sure; just talked again with my older brother as he saw virtually every Bay Area show of theirs...did you happen to see them back in the day?
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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April 29, 2010 08:28:48am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Hey Dire! This is a special message just for you! I was gonna put something really good in it, but the PATs are old news, and your Celtics, well--they're just old and broken...besides, my coffee hasn't gotten to my fingers yet, so it'll probably triple post this time, and I wouldn't want to make fun of you three times in a row...
This post was modified by William Tell on 2010-04-29 15:28:48
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direwolf0701 |
Date:
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April 29, 2010 08:23:34am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
hey!
quit double posting - you are taking up space!!
;)
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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April 29, 2010 08:31:19am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
"...taking up space..."
That's what she said...wife that is; and no, not any "useful" space either...
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Poster:
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direwolf0701 |
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April 29, 2010 08:33:25am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
i am taking up too much useless space also - though it appears to be the fault of eating too many frozen pizzas.
(of course, as i type this i am sitting beside an idle treadmill - so sad)
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 10:51:55am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Looks like folks chimed in during my hiatus (har).
Studio: obvious I guess--you can pick up the first three cheap on CD (Fresh, DGears, WhFire), and that covers their peak there...Then, there are at least two "live" releases (vol I & II) that would nicely fill in for Live on top of WhFire tunes that were live.
Then, there are two DVDs, 68 AlbHall is excellent, and LiveFreshCream has some footage of tunes done live. Lots of ytube of course, as noted.
Finally, if you have access to the torrenting materials, then Oct of 67, Mar of 68 and Oct of 68 have a handful of SBD shows that are defn worth having, esp 10-15-67.
That about does it for a quick entry to their stuff.
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Poster:
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hippie64 |
Date:
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April 29, 2010 10:52:55am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
I have 10-15-67 streaming now. Finally got the EQ dialed in, wow it was touch and go there for a sec.
I'm still in the 1st set (first blues # of the set) and so far I like what I hear. Besides this blues number here they remind me alot of the jamming The Who did in 67-68. For me EC and PT are cut pretty much from the same bolt of cloth(I think they attended school together). It's just that one went to the Crossroads and the other to Art School.
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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April 29, 2010 11:31:59am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Very cool! Enjoy...I don't "see" the PT & EC similarities, but might be me...love em both.
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hippie64 |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 06:12:57pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
"10-15-67"
Looks like I need to listen to this, and the other suggestions 'cause I,II and the studio material is not giving me what I want,I'm assuming these boards are at the usual locations i.e. Lossless, or trader's, maybe Planet Rock? It's not the band's fault, It's my Cream collection.
Went to Wolfgangs vault and gave The Who-> @ Tanglewood 7-7-70 again (to cheap to buy right now) if 10-15-67 has a spoonful of what that performance of Tommy has, well then Witness ! (didn't mean to bring any Cavalier catch phrases this way)
Looking forward to Cream/w coffee in the morning.... :( Big Shit ,right I'm lactose intolerant (not funny I love ice cream), alright no more jokin' seriously, thanx
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Poster:
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Finster Baby |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 06:45:12am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Tell is the resident expert....and I'm no Tell, but IMO you can start just about anywhere. Any of their officially released stuff is good. Disraeli Gears and Live Cream would be 2 to get you started. If you want to dig deeper and are into bittorrent, there is stuff to be found at some of the torrent sites.
Just my $.02.
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Dudley Dead |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 07:10:24am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
If the set is still around , you get it all together on 4 discs .
If you want to save a few cents, you could get a good Hit's" sort of package , and then one of the "Live Cream" albums ( hard for me to pick , 1 has that NSU, and 2 has that uber ballsy "Sunshine of Your Love ".). The live "Crossroads' usually is on the "hit" packages .
But I still say get the set,("30 tacos, that's what I was thinking"). If you try and get all the albums separately, you spend more money ,plus there is some extra stuff on the set , and any fan of the late 60's Dead, is gonna want all that live stuff . Some weak moments (Train time), and "Toad is not the beat example of Ginger Baker's ability .
I don't have any of the "unofficial shows , but I am sure the world of torrents, has some .
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 12:11:32pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Good advice; I only add that though TT can be a bit much, I think that Toad, usually stands out...the intro and close are an outstanding, memorable ("stays in your head" tune, when all three play), and depending on what "he" does, GB can show why it IS considered THE drum solo in R&R. It is esp nice to "watch" it...he was amazing.
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Poster:
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Dudley Dead |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 01:53:21pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Outside of the people who just hate drum solos, I have know those over the years, the greatly admire Ginger, but feel the version of Toad on WOF, doesn't do justice the depths of his ability . That said, I can't think of any other drum solo on a rock album that is better than this Another reason to get the set , is that the group part of Toad is longer , the one that is on WOF, is edited .
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 02:06:18pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Frankly, I am sick and tired of analyzing the different versions of Toad to find out when he's great and when he's...JK!
Seriously, though, I know the feeling! Watching him do it, even in the edited version with AlbHall68, it's great!
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Poster:
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Dudley Dead |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 03:47:56pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
It's too bad the whole concert isn't on the film ! Yes Ginger was unreal in that concert . Dead, related, the whole "what was left on the cutting room floor', make me wonder what is still extant of the Festival Express tour . And not only for the Dead !
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staggerleib |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 05:38:47pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Interesting conversation. I have to say, much as I love GB, he was no Keith Moon.
Moon was able to do things that were theoretically impossible.
Plus he was a great drummer.
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hippie64 |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 05:45:19pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Forgive bitte, got to chime here,
Very underated IMHO, Moonie looked sweet as a cherub, put drumsticks in his hand and...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM7SYuhQ0ykHis drum phrasing is consistent with what Daltrey described as "someone playing lead gutiar on the drums" And he was essentially The Who->'s lead guitarist. He put an ass whooping on those drums every night , until sadly..."Death don't have no mercy"
Can't (won't) bash GB. Throw in Bohnam, add Moonie and I think you have THE top 3, Don't wanna talk Peart, A.Van Halen, or another personal fav Stewart Copeland. Moon and Bonham are gone , what a drag.
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staggerleib |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 06:05:12pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
I've always loved Moonie.
Favorite drummer conversations are so subjective.
I have to add to the list:
Billy Cobham
Phil Collins
Carl Palmer
Bill Bruford
I can't really ignore the prog guys...
Can anyone say Mike Portnoy? He may be the best I've ever seen.
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 06:38:04pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Hey SL; love KM, but you'd get a big argument from me about him being a better drummer than GB...I have had it so many times, I'll leave it (as you say, we'd probably just go back and forth without convincing one another). Actually, I mis-spoke; I've had the "who's the best R&R drummer?" argument many, many times, but actually, very rarely with him being mentioned (ie, it's usu so and so vs GB). I would put him in my top five favs, but more on just "liking him" if you will, and am very glad you mentioned him; I think "technically" speaking, he's a harder one to make the case for given less breadth to what he did over his career (and it ended early, etc.).
I will say that he is CRITICAL to why I consider "Who's Next?" as one of the top five R&R albums of all time...I really do think it's an outstanding piece of work, though not many would agree (at least when I've mentioned it here)...that doesn't mean I don't like this or that album "more", but trying to judge "objectively" at some level, I think it's masterful...
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staggerleib |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 06:53:59pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Hey, brother WT, long time no see. I've been acclimating to a new job, and a lot of travel for work. Not a lot of time to spend playing lately.
I have to say, though, that my perspective when it comes to drummers is more along the lines of favorites rather than technically "Better."
For example, give Phil Collins his grief for being the guy that ruined one of the best bands I've ever loved, but you cannot deny his chops behind the kit. I wonder if he'll ever play again...
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hippie64 |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 06:58:15pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Ding.. We have a winner. What Moon failed to display in technical grace, he more than made up for with playing between Entwhisles thunder and Townshends lightning. He riffed constantly,
Sloppy drums? check, packed w/ explosives? double check. Your right about it being subjective though, I' sure in drumming school, Moon's image is pasted on the overhead, and the students are lectured "Don't be this guy" (especially at a large venue like the Cow Palace passed out),
I love Phil the drummer, but I'm more familer with Phil the pop singer (love No Jacket...wtf is wrong w/ me)
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Poster:
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mickmac |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 07:38:06pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
The thing with Keith Moon is this: double bass drum thus no high hat which made The Who a band with 3 lead instrumentalists with no true discerable rhythm section. Entwhistle, Townsend and Moon all played "lead". Listen to lead drums on the Tommy album.
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mickmac |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 07:52:16pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Listen to the Underture and you will see what I mean.
This post was modified by mickmac on 2010-04-29 02:52:16
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 07:55:31pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Nice to chat, SL; and agree with hipster and MMac: KM really had a unique, and very nice style with the other two Who players...under-rated I think.
In all this CREAM analysis one thing I've come to appreciate is that though what MMac said about the three Who players is often applied to CREAM players, GB does some amazing stuff in the brief gaps (not many!) in a number of tunes that is just perfection in terms of hitting a number of times, producing a great "mini-solo" nicely connecting across the gap if that totally simplistic description makes any sense...I much moreso appreciate his work in that regard than just the straight up "technically impressive" solos (good as I think those were).
And another pt, just as with GB, WATCHING KM was a real experience (got to see them a couple times with him). Drummers, of course (duh), really make for a great visual when they're good...
Thanks guys--and again, agree with you completely on your pt, MMac...(the "lead" on that section/sequence).
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Poster:
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snori |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 07:52:03am |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
If you want examples of studio and live material then 'Wheels of Fire' covers both. Released as a double album, one was studio (including 'White Room), the other Live (from one or both of the Fillmores).
If it's a DVD you're after I'd go for the 'Farewell' concert from 1968.
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 12:44:36pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
BTW, Winterland figures in the live too, I recall...will check. Defn the "west fillmore".
Ah ha--winterland is BIG, and not even the "real FWest" (?)...here's wiki:
"Note 4: It is a common misconception that Cream played at the Fillmore West. They never did. That venue was originally the Carousel Ballroom and was rechristened as the Fillmore West in June/July 1968 and Cream didn't play in San Francisco in that period or at that venue thereafter. In February and March 1968 Cream did a long run of concerts at Winterland and at the old Fillmore Auditorium. It was this Fillmore venue (which still exists) at which Cream played and not the later Fillmore West (which no longer survives). Live at the Fillmore means just that (refering to "Toad")."
This post was modified by William Tell on 2010-04-28 19:44:36
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Poster:
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snori |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 02:33:56pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
Thanks for the detail WT. I vaguely knew there was something askew about that live disc, but couldn't remember what.
I've been meaning to ask, as someone who loved both at the time, how do you feel about the Jimi Hendrix Experience ? There was a bit of (friendly) rivalry between the fans, but not (it seemed to me) between the bands. I remember 'God' being given an award for best guitarist in the cosmos or somesuch, and he simply said 'this should have gone to Jimi'.
Over time, and now some material is sneaking out (curse you Hendrix 'family') I def lean more towards the Experience.
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Poster:
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Dudley Dead |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 10:04:07pm |
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
I love both of them, if it was thumbs up or down, Cream would win as a band, but friends who saw both , seem to feel that Redding , and Mitchell were pretty amazeing also. I enjoy MM's drumming, he seems to be comming from the same "sons of Elvin Jones " school as Ginger Baker ( this is meant as big ass complement ). Hendrix so dominated that group ( his group ..oh yeah )that I think the other guys get overlooked . Interestingly , though Hendrix is the better know, possibly greater, artist, I don't see him as all that influential due to the fact he was so unique . Cream had a huge and direct influence on many of the bands of the day ( especially the kind of bands a lot of us here on the forum like ).
Love 'em both .
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Poster:
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William Tell |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 02:48:15pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Re: Attn. WT Cream Request |
For me, it's open and shut: CREAM. But, that is entirely due to JB & GB. I view that they added so much more depth to them, though I love(d) the two (Redding and...?) too.
Jimi is in a class by himself, and I have no problem saying he's "tops" (EC is NOT key to CREAM, for me, though I rank him very highly). I love WindCMary, HJoe, those sorts--and the other "showy" guitar tunes are great, but to me, though everyone else said there was a "big diff" for them tween CREAM and the DEAD, for me, listening to most of their jams is similar to my 68 jams (duh--I know they ARE diff, but you get the idea? Energy! Something new and different? etc).
So, I have had various Jimi phases, BUT nothing tops how much I can listen to the CREAM, except the DEAD...they are clearly the two I obsess about, and nobody comes close.
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Poster:
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light into ashes |
Date:
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April 28, 2010 04:12:56pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Jimi |
In short: Hendrix is God.
Here's an essay on Hendrix & the Dead:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=210202 A recent article in Rolling Stone mentioned that the "Family" is now putting together another multi-disc Hendrix anthology of outtakes, which to me is fantastic news. Considering all the stuff in the Hendrix vaults, their release rate is VERY slow. (They're apparently also doing yet another documentary, which could be good too.)
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Poster:
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snori |
Date:
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April 29, 2010 07:50:41am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Re: Jimi |
Thanks for posting this LIA - checking out the links will keep me from doing too much work this morning. I recently got the three night run from Winterland in Oct '68 and it's renewed my enthusiasm for the Experience. Plus some later studio work has emerged which show some subtler, beautiful elements emerging in his playing that, sadly, we never saw come to fruition.
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